Kick Counts Made Simple: FAQs, Expert Tips, and Why It Can Save Babies’ Lives

In this episode of The Pulling Curls Podcast, Hilary Erickson, RN, is joined by Kimberly Iceberg from Count the Kicks to answer common questions about tracking your baby’s movements during pregnancy. They discuss why kick counts matter, how to use the Count the Kicks app, what to do if you notice changes in your baby’s movement, and how kick counting can give you peace of mind while supporting stillbirth prevention. The episode also covers tips for handling complications like an anterior placenta and offers advice for communicating concerns with your healthcare provider.

Find it here on Apple or Spotify Podcasts

Big thanks to our sponsor The Count the Kicks App — It is free and available in 20+ languages. Start using daily at 28 weeks or 26 weeks if high-risk or pregnant with multiples. It makes doing a daily kick count easy. 77% of app users report that using the app helped decrease their anxiety about the well-being of their baby. 84% said it helped to increase their feelings of bonding. The app can be a great way to involve your partner or your baby’s older siblings.

Download the app here: https://countthekicks.org/download-app/

Today’s guest is Kimberly Isburg. She is the Communications Director for Healthy Birth Day, Inc., the nonprofit that created the Count the Kicks stillbirth prevention program. She is a mom of two boys and a firm believer in the power of Count the Kicks. She’s on a mission to make sure all expectant parents know about kick counting in the third trimester of pregnancy.

Links for you:

When to start kick counts: https://www.pullingcurls.com/when-start-kick-counts/

The importance of kick counts: https://www.pullingcurls.com/podcast-bonus-kick-counts/

Timestamps:

00:00 “Pregnancy & Parenting Insights Podcast”

05:38 Pregnancy App Tracks Baby Movement

09:24 Mindful Baby Movement Tracking

10:14 Importance of Monitoring Fetal Movement

14:01 Pregnancy Health Concerns

18:50 Assessing Fetal Movement with Anterior Placenta

20:30 Baby Movement Tracking Eases Anxiety

23:16 Monitor Fetal Movement with Anterior Placenta

25:59 Kick Counts Start at 27 Weeks

31:01 Labor Nurses’ Challenges and Solutions

33:03 Third Trimester: Key Time for Testing

35:48 “Daily Kit Counts Benefit Health”

Keypoints:

• The episode features Hilary Erickson, RN, and guest Kimberly from Count the Kicks, diving into frequently asked questions about fetal kick counts during pregnancy.
• The Count the Kicks app is highlighted as a free, easy-to-use tool available in over 20 languages, designed to help expectant moms track their baby’s movement and identify normal patterns.
• Kick counting involves tracking any fetal movement (kicks, rolls, pokes, jabs, swishes) except hiccups, focusing on pattern consistency over time rather than comparing to a fixed standard like “10 kicks in 2 hours.”
• It’s recommended to begin daily kick counts at the start of the third trimester (around 26–28 weeks), which is when babies typically establish a recognizable movement pattern.
• Every baby—and pregnancy—is different; the key is to learn what’s normal for your individual baby instead of comparing to others or strict timeframes.
• Count the Kicks app allows for note-taking, monitoring movement strength, and creating a graph for clear visualization of your baby’s movement history—helpful for discussing with healthcare providers.
• Changes in a baby’s movement pattern (either slower or faster) should always be reported to a healthcare provider, as they can indicate potential problems with either baby or mom’s health.
• Kick counts are proven to help reduce stillbirth rates, with research cited showing a 32% drop in Iowa after the practice was widely encouraged with Count the Kicks.
• Hilary and Kimberly address common concerns such as anxiety related to kick counts, babies described as “lazy,” and complications like an anterior placenta, encouraging open communication with providers.
• Both emphasize kick counting as an empowering, bonding daily ritual—useful not only for peace of mind but as a practical safeguard for mom and baby, and encourage listeners to download the app and make daily tracking part of their routine.

Producer: Drew Erickson

Transcript:

[00:00:00] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Hey guys. Welcome back to the Pulling Curls Podcast. Today on episode 259, we are talking about frequently asked questions about counting your baby’s kicks, so let’s untangle it.

[00:00:09] Hi, I’m Hilary, a Serial over Complicator. I’m also a nurse mom to three and the curly head behind pulling curls and the pregnancy nurse. This podcast aims to help us stop overcomplicating things and remember how much easier it is to keep things simple. Let’s smooth out those snarls with pregnancy and parenting untangled, the Pulling Curls podcast.

[00:00:39] This episode of the Pulling Curls podcast is sponsored by the Count the Kicks app. Guys, I’m a firm believer in this and fan girling over the fact that they wanted to sponsor my podcast because it is the app that is going to make kick counts easier and more attainable for you to do at home. I know a lot of you have excuses as to why you don’t do kick counts, and I really think that this app can make a big difference for you.

[00:01:00] So download it in your app store right now.

[00:01:03] Today’s guest is the Communications Director for Healthy Birth Day, which is the nonprofit that created the Count the Kicks app. She is a mom to four and a firm believer in the importance of kick counts. I wanna introduce today’s guest, Kimberly Isburg.

[00:01:15] Hey Kimberly. Welcome to the Pulling Curls podcast.

[00:01:18] Kimberly Isburg: Hi Hilary. Thanks so much for having me here.

[00:01:20] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yes, this is a very requested episode. People are always interested in how kick counts and it’s huge soapbox for me, so I’m so excited that you guys are here. First off, let’s talk a little bit about the Count the Kicks app.

[00:01:34] Kimberly Isburg: So we have a free pregnancy app. It’s available in the iOS or Android stores. it is available in more than 20 languages, so, hopefully anyone can count kicks, regardless of what language you speak. And it looks a little bit like this. Bright, yellow and red. We do have a dark mode in the app, but really, starting at the beginning of the third trimester, you can use this app every day, to get familiar with your baby’s normal movement pattern.

[00:02:00] So, it’s really easy. You just click the start counting button and then you tap. The little foot put on the screen every time you feel your baby move. so you’re not only looking for kicks, you’re looking for things like pokes, jabs, rolls, wishes, pushes, any type of movement counts as a movement except for hiccups.

[00:02:19] Those are involuntary or babies aren’t choosing to hiccups. So those don’t count. But any other types of movement count. It’s gonna run a timer on the screen Until you reach 10 movements, and then it’s gonna ask you to rate the strength of your baby’s movements, because research shows that the strength of movements is also an important sign of your baby’s wellbeing.

[00:02:38] So rate those on a scale of one to five, and then you can finish up by taking any notes that you want. So maybe it’s a question you wanna ask your doctor. Maybe it’s, something you ate that day and it really made your baby move and groove, during your kick counting session. so you can take notes and then finish your session.

[00:02:53] And if you do this every day around the same time. You are gonna begin to see a pattern. It’s gonna create, a really cool graph that’s gonna show you kind of what’s normal for your baby. again, that average amount of time that you’re taking, for your baby to reach 10 movement. So this is just a test one that I’ve done, but what you’re.

[00:03:10] Looking for the screen is not working very well. but anyway, you’re kind of looking for a, a pretty level, line across time. If you see that that line starts to go up or significantly down, that’s a change in your baby’s normal movement, and that’s a sign that you wanna call your provider and go in and get checked.

[00:03:27] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Okay. Do you guys alert them in the app? Like is there an alert where it’s like, this is taking a lot longer, or anything like that, or it’s kind of up to

[00:03:34] Kimberly Isburg: No, it’s kind of up to each person. and really that’s why it’s important for you to do it every day around the same time, really get to know what’s normal for your baby. because every baby and every pregnancy are different. And so a change for you might be different than a change for somebody else.

[00:03:48] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yeah, and I always recommend that first week is a lot of just learning your pattern.

[00:03:52] Kimberly Isburg: Yeah.

[00:03:52] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: will be like, oh, it was 10 minutes yesterday and it was 20 minutes today. I am like, right. So your average is probably around 15. So yeah, learning the pattern is so important. And comparing just your baby to your baby not anyone else.

[00:04:05] Kimberly Isburg: absolutely, absolutely. It’s, yeah, my baby might move, you know, within five minutes and it may take your baby 15 or 20 or 30. So, again, every baby and every pregnancy are different. And the other thing that’s great about the app and that I wanna mention is that, if you create an account.

[00:04:21] Pregnancy profile is what we call it. You’re gonna be able to see that history over a long period of time. So if you start counting at the beginning of the third trimester, 26 to 28 weeks, you’re gonna be able to see 12 weeks of kick counting history, you know, if you go all the way to your due date. So by creating that account, you’re really getting that long term data.

[00:04:40] Otherwise you’ll still be able to see like the last five sessions in the app. but really the key is being able to see that history over time.

[00:04:47] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yes. Okay, so let’s talk about, I get so many questions. I just had a recently a viral video on kick counts, and so I wanted to go through the questions that I saw most frequently on there, and we can just discuss ’em so that people can really understand how to integrate kick counts in your own life.

[00:05:03] Because I gotta tell you, there were nights I skipped, things I forgot. I was a working mom, and so sometimes it just didn’t happen. Is that the best? Absolutely not. But you would just pick up the next day, or you pick up when you remember, and you try and do your kick count then,

[00:05:16] Kimberly Isburg: Yes, absolutely. It’s again, just being consistent over time and getting to know. The more often you do it, the more consistently you do it, the more you’re gonna know what’s normal for your baby. Like if it is that 15 minute average and one day it’s taking way longer than that, you’re like, okay, this is, this is not normal and I need to call my doctor.

[00:05:36] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yes. Okay. The first one that everybody says is, my doctor says 10 movements in two hours. I think when I started, so I started in labor and delivery in 2001. I think that’s what we said for

[00:05:46] Kimberly Isburg: Mm-hmm.

[00:05:46] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: kick counts. but as that is comparing your baby to everyone else’s baby, which you don’t wanna do when they’re in elementary school either.

[00:05:53] Kimberly Isburg: Yes, yes. Every baby is unique. Just like every person is unique, they’re gonna have their own, unique movement patterns, and so the research has really moved away from the idea that you should expect to get a certain amount of movements in a specific amount of time. So the 10 movements in two hours is not really best practice anymore.

[00:06:11] Again, it’s just doing that daily kick count and learning what’s normal for your baby timing, how long it takes to reach 10 movements. And then paying attention to the strength of those movements as well.

[00:06:21] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: And because I had crazy babies, if I had waited two hours to get 10 movements, something would, would, would’ve been seriously

[00:06:27] Kimberly Isburg: Right.

[00:06:27] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: wrong. Whereas some people with an anterior placenta, they may just feel 10 movements like all day. And if that’s you talk with your provider, there are specific people that this is really difficult for.

[00:06:37] So that’s when you’re talking with your provider and maybe getting further testing during your pregnancy. But you gotta compare your baby to run your own baby’s race.

[00:06:45] Kimberly Isburg: Yes, absolutely. And even every pregnancy, you know, my first son moved way differently than my second son. And, if I had been comparing them, I would’ve felt like something was wrong with my second baby. But that was just what was normal for him.

[00:06:59] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yeah, ’cause I just wanna remind you guys, it really depends where in your uterus your, placenta is. And so if your uterus, if your placenta is right here where your baby is kicking, then that is gonna be different than if your placenta is like in the back.

[00:07:11] And so you feel everything on the front. So sometimes that visual helps. People understand how different placenta can change how you feel your baby’s movements,

[00:07:19] Kimberly Isburg: Yeah, and that’s an important thing, you know, to ask your doctor too. If you don’t know where your placenta is located and you’re getting ready to start kick counts, that can be a really helpful piece of information.

[00:07:29] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: and it is on every ultrasound. If you guys are like, well, what if my doctor doesn’t know? It’s just part of every single ultrasound that we get, they share where the placenta is on the uterine wall.

[00:07:38] Kimberly Isburg: Awesome.

[00:07:38] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Okay. The next thing is when people say, my doctor said not to worry about kick counts. So just make sure that the baby’s moving during the day. What are your thoughts on that? And then I’ll share mine. ’cause I’m, I’m the cynic in this room.

[00:07:51] Kimberly Isburg: So, I mean, I think. That’s kind of practicing mindfulness, just being aware of movements, and I think that’s really important too. Your baby, the beginning of the third trimester is going to get into kind of a recognizable pattern, times of day where they’re more active, times of day where they’re resting.

[00:08:06] but again, the key is. Picking a time of day when you know that they’re active and counting during that time. we are busy during pregnancy. We have a lot going on. You may have other kids. It is easy to get just wrapped up in your day and kind of forget about when was the last time I felt my baby move.

[00:08:24] And so having this daily practice where you take time to sit down, lay down. Really focus on your baby’s movement. It really gives you that peace of mind to know like, okay, today my baby is moving at the time they normally do in the way they normally do, and I can go back to making dinner or playing with my kids.

[00:08:41] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yeah, so first off, I think it’s really important to not turn off your brain like when you’re doing kick counts, you’re still monitoring for fetal movement all during the day. Some people are like, well, if you only, monitor it after dinner, that’s not good either, which I agree should always be making, you know, that should always be reassuring when you’re feeling baby move. Second of all. Some of these doctors, I feel like do not wanna be notified when your baby is moving less because they wanna sleep. and that’s the cynic in me coming out. But I just wanted you guys to understand that that could be a red flag if your provider’s like, oh, fetal movement doesn’t really matter. Might wanna look for a different ob. That’s just me. That’s just Hilary. because I think some of them like to ignore it because they don’t wanna see you or take those phone calls.

[00:09:22] Kimberly Isburg: Yeah, and I agree like just because your doctor isn’t talking to you about it or isn’t recommending it, doesn’t mean it isn’t important. Like this kick counting is for every mom in every pregnancy. It’s important practice, even if it isn’t something that your doctor is specifically asking you to do.

[00:09:39] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yeah, and I would bring it up at appointments. If they haven’t brought it up,

[00:09:42] Kimberly Isburg: Yeah.

[00:09:42] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: and you’re close to your third trimester, they’re not gonna bring it up when you’re 12 weeks. But if you’re getting 25, 26, 27 weeks and they’re still not bringing it up, bring it up in the office and just see what they say. It’s always a good, communication thing to be kind of like, you know, do they care?

[00:09:54] Kimberly Isburg: Yeah, and I think that’s where the Count the Kicks app is a great, it’s a great tool. It’s a great conversation piece, and you can bring it with you to appointments and you can. show, you know, your chart on the app, or you can even text or email your data from your kick sessions directly to your provider.

[00:10:09] And so it can kind of help you have that conversation about your baby’s movement patterns during your appointments.

[00:10:15] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yes. Then I hear a lot. “I should just figure out their schedule. My doctor told me to just figure out my baby’s schedule and make sure that they stay on it.” And again, you wanna be monitoring baby’s movements, but I, that is tricky. A lot of these are so vague that me as a person who really likes boundaries And spreadsheets and stuff. I really like the kick counts because it gives me more of a concrete thing to aim for rather than, “well, is your baby on their schedule?” Whereas if I’m not on my schedule, I decide to go to the mall instead of like work at home that day, then I have no idea what’s going on.

[00:10:48] Kimberly Isburg: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Your schedule changes every day, so that can impact your baby schedule as well. we like to say that this app, kick counting is like having a data download for your intuition. You’re still aware of the baby’s schedule, but you’ve got data there to show you like, yep. Today it took 20 minutes just like it did all week.

[00:11:07] and so again, yeah, be aware of your baby schedule if you know that they’re always moving and grooving when you lay down to go to bed at night and there’s a night where they’re not doing that, that’s, you know, a red flag. That’s something that you might want to call your doctor about or go in and get checked.

[00:11:22] But, still important to do that daily practice of kick counts.

[00:11:25] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yeah. Okay. And the final one I hear a lot from providers is that later on in pregnancy, baby will just move less. And I can see where these people are coming from because the characteristic of the movement does change. It’s no longer karate and cheerleader kicks because your baby just doesn’t have the room to pull back and really sock you.

[00:11:46] Kimberly Isburg: right.

[00:11:47] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: They’re shifting a lot. They’re just, I always was like, my baby is gonna come out and be a full on cheerleader, right? There’s, they’re gonna be like doing the spread eagle, whereas, and then you see ’em and they’re just like this and you’re like, is that all you were doing in there? I thought you were really going at it.

[00:12:00] Kimberly Isburg: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. The types of movements that you’re gonna feel towards the end are, are different and more nudges, fewer big roll and kicks more, you know, kind of elbows, jabs. But they should still continue to follow that same pattern, have the same times of day when they’re active, and take about the same amount of time to reach 10 movements.

[00:12:19] They do not slow down. They do not run out of room. They do not kick less at the end of pregnancy. They should still be moving up to and during labor.

[00:12:28] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: And if they are running out of room, which could mean that you have less fluid or baby is extra large, you know, this is more than just learning like that something’s really wrong with baby. Some of it is you just aren’t producing enough fluid. I. Right, and you need further testing ’cause that can be detrimental to baby or you have preeclampsia.

[00:12:47] I can’t tell me how many people in the comments were like, I actually went in and found out my blood pressure was high, which could make your fluid lower or things like that. you’re learning about your pregnancy health along with these kick counts. Not always just baby’s health.

[00:13:00] Kimberly Isburg: Correct. Like your baby’s movements are not only a sign of their wellbeing, but a sign of the health of the pregnancy. And we do see a connection between, a change in movements and some pregnancy complication that’s going on with mom. Things like preeclampsia, things like placental issues. it can be an indication, not just that something is happening with your baby, but that there’s something going on in the pregnancy.

[00:13:22] And so that’s why it’s so important to pay attention to those movements and to speak up every time that you have a concern, you know that your baby’s not moving like normal. Something feels off.

[00:13:32] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yeah. Now we’re shifting to a segment that I called, I’m doing this instead because everyone was like, “I don’t think kick counts really work. I, I’m doing this instead.” So the one I hear a lot is “I’m just mindful of baby’s movements, and that’s the same.”

[00:13:47] Kimberly Isburg: again, it’s great. Being mindful of movements is awesome. again, you don’t have that like data knowing, okay, I, my baby was moving, but like, how much did they move? how long did it take them to reach 10 movements? That’s what Count The Kicks is really helping you get, it’s a kind of. taking that mindfulness of movements and quantifying it and saying, okay, my baby moved 10 times in 15 minutes today, and the strength was a three, pretty average.

[00:14:14] so I think mindfulness is great, but kick counting, doing the practice of the app is like, again, that data download for your intuition and what you’re feeling.

[00:14:23] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yeah. And beyond that, you guys have a study, so, we’ve always said be mindful of baby’s movements, but you guys have a study that you linked to on your site when they integrated kick counts into prenatal care, really pushed it in the state of Ohio,

[00:14:37] Kimberly Isburg: Iowa. Yeah,

[00:14:39] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yeah.

[00:14:39] Kimberly Isburg: that’s okay.

[00:14:40] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: that when they started talking about doing the count, still dropped by 33%.

[00:14:47] Kimberly Isburg: in the first 10 years of Count the Kicks in the state of Iowa, which is where our organization was founded.

[00:14:54] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: So, you know, we’ve always talked about mindfulness. Of course. That’s like one of the first questions I get when I, when you come into labor and delivery, how are you feeling, baby move because it’s really important. Your OB probably goes over it at your prenatal appointments. We’ve always said that, right?

[00:15:08] But when they integrated these, the data of count the kicks, which is actually what, Got me going like in the first place. My manager went to a conference, saw you guys and brought the information back to me. And then I was like, oh my gosh, I totally need to write an article on this because this is crazy good data.

[00:15:24] And this was probably like 10 years ago, maybe more than that. it really saves stillborn babies. So if you’re telling yourself that, you’re just gonna be mindful. The data shows that. You know, one in three still births can be saved by doing kick counts. That doesn’t mean one in three pregnancies.

[00:15:39] Kimberly Isburg: right.

[00:15:40] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: That means one in three still births.

[00:15:42] Kimberly Isburg: Yeah. And stillbirths, there’s about 21,000 in the US every year, and that’s roughly one in every 177 pregnancies nationwide. So it’s not uncommon, but it’s not super common either. But again, the risk is higher than I think most of us realize, and that’s why we’re trying to talk about it and raise awareness that it is an outcome that can be prevented.

[00:16:02] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: When you guys say the one in 177, does that mean after a certain number of weeks? ’cause that doesn’t include miscarriages,

[00:16:08] Kimberly Isburg: One in 1 77 means it’s 20 weeks and none is what’s classified as the silver. So that includes, babies that are lost in that late second trimester as well.

[00:16:19] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yes. The other thing I hear a lot is “my baby is lazy.” by the way, my teenager is lazy, so I understand that. but my, she’s not, she does the transcriptions, but sometimes she is, we’re all lazy sometimes,

[00:16:31] Kimberly Isburg: Yeah.

[00:16:31] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: my baby is lazy. I can’t do these. what are your thoughts on that?

[00:16:34] Kimberly Isburg: I, again, every baby is different. I had one baby that just kicked me like crazy and my other baby was much more chill. your baby may be kind of chill. They may be lazy, I guess as you described them. Still important to do it. It’s still important to know that your baby, Is, is taking 30 minutes a day to get their kick counts or whatever it is that’s normal for your baby.

[00:16:59] Again, don’t compare it to your friend’s baby. Don’t compare it to your last pregnancy. Know what’s normal for your baby. And if they are just not quite as much of an active kicker, that’s okay. But again, by doing that daily kick count, picking the time that your baby is normally moving around, you are gonna be able to quantify what their movement pattern is.

[00:17:17] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yes. And I think some of those people are thinking the 10 in two hours, they’re like, my baby’s not gonna hit that. Maybe they have an anterior placenta or whatever. If you literally, I know Dr. Fran has done some, some things on her page where she has anterior placenta on every baby, and she really only felt a few kicks every hour.

[00:17:35] Or every day. And so if that is you, that’s definitely something you wanna bring to your provider. I would say that if that’s the case, you probably are looking for maybe NSTs during the week or they should be upgrading you to a, a higher risk care plan if that’s really all the baby movement that you’re feeling.

[00:17:50] So I would talk with your provider if you’re feeling like kick counts are taking more than two hours every day, just to kind of get an idea because we obviously can’t stop our lives and

[00:17:59] Kimberly Isburg: Okay.

[00:17:59] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: just wait for baby to move. For hours and hours and hours. Yeah.

[00:18:03] Kimberly Isburg: Yes.

[00:18:03] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: And, but I, when I did them at work, because I tried to do them after dinner, I would try and sit down and, and just use my fingers.

[00:18:10] ’cause we didn’t have apps back in the day. Um, fine too, you don’t have to use the app or if you get, you’re like, you’re at a concert and you’re like, I don’t wanna open the app. Just use your fingers and, you know, just feel for baby to move, while you’re there.

[00:18:22] Kimberly Isburg: Yeah, absolutely.

[00:18:23] And we do have other resources available for kick counting. So we’ve got, wristbands that have like a slider that moves from one to 10. so we’ve got some of those available on our website in certain states. And then we’ve also got paper charts that you can print out, and those are available in a lot of different languages on our website, and anybody can download and print those out.

[00:18:42] So if an app is not your thing, there’s still other ways to count. You can just set a timer on your phone or set a, an old school timer as well.

[00:18:49] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yes. okay. The other one I get is “Kick Counts will make, they’ll make me so anxious and crazy. I am not able to do it.” So how do you guys respond to that?

[00:18:57] Kimberly Isburg: We hear that a lot and what our app users tell us is more than 77% of them say that it actually helps reduce their anxiety about the wellbeing of their baby. So again. Knowledge is power. And by doing this every day, you’re quantifying that movement. You’re getting familiar with your baby’s patterns, and that’s gonna give you a lot of peace of mind so that once you do it, you know, okay, today my baby is moving just like they always do.

[00:19:22] I can go on and finish my work or, make dinner, whatever you need to do next. And by the same token, if you have a day where your baby, you’re just feeling off, something’s not right, you do your kick count, it’s taking longer than normal. Again, you’ve got that data to back up how you’re feeling and you know, okay, this is a concern.

[00:19:41] I need to call my provider and get checked.

[00:19:43] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yes. I will say that also, if you’re just sitting there living in your anxiety, that’s probably not helpful. So I always encourage people, that’s your time to get to know your baby, to dream about this baby, how perfect they’re gonna be. How they’re never gonna have a problem, that you will never have to put ’em in timeout or whatever.

[00:20:01] Like they’re just gonna be. The perfect baby. I dream about like all the good things you have going, like the first time they open a Christmas gift and like they get what’s going on. The first time you put ’em in a Halloween costume when they’re two. It’s like there are so many good moments for you guys coming if you dream about those rather than like. It’s been oh, oh, oh. Like if you spend the whole time just freaking out, then yes, that’s gonna cause you anxiety. But if you take the time to like work on some meditation, just dream about the excitement, then it hopefully will decrease your anxiety. And if you think you’re one of those people who think anxiety’s gonna be like a real problem, just start. Do it for a week. See where you’re at after a week.

[00:20:38] Kimberly Isburg: Yeah. And

[00:20:39] that’s great advice. And yeah, just try it and see how it goes. You’re gonna learn something in the process and that’s also, thank you so much for, for bringing that up. It is a fantastic time to bond with your baby to get to know their personality. It is an opportunity to involve your spouse or your partner or your baby’s older siblings.

[00:20:59] Like anybody can help you do this kick count and spend time bonding with your baby before they arrive. So There are many benefits to it, in addition to just checking on your baby’s wellbeing.

[00:21:09] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Oh, I love the idea of a sibling or a partner helping you out with it. That’s a good one. Yeah. Okay. Now we’re gonna talk about some complications. We’ve already talked about this a little bit. So the first one is an anterior placenta, which means your placenta is on the front of your uterus. If it’s behind, then that is a posterior placenta. And early on in pregnancy, if you found that you had an anterior placenta, it actually can move to a posterior placenta as your uterus grows. Just so everybody knows. So your most recent ultrasound, usually if you get your 20 week, it’ll tell you which side your placenta is on. but if people with an anterior placenta can’t get 10 movements in two hours, what is your guys’ recommendation?

[00:21:43] Kimberly Isburg: I mean, like you said, definitely talking to your provider and getting advice from them about how you can monitor movement with your anterior placenta. but really, and same like. It may be that you need to be a little bit more mindful of kick counting. You need to sit down, you need to lie down on your side.

[00:22:01] Really take that time to be a hundred percent focused on that so you can kind of, fine tune and like zero in on those movements in a way that you might not have to if you didn’t have an anterior placenta. But really the research does show that fetal movement counting times are similar to other placental locations from 24 weeks and on.

[00:22:21] So it may delay kind of feeling those early movements. But what the research shows is that it’s still possible to kick count and that you should see similar movements from 24 weeks and on.

[00:22:32] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Okay. That’s super interesting because sometimes I’ll have people in the comments who are like, I have a anterior placenta and I, you know, my kick counts 20 minutes. And so I agree that sometimes you have to sit down and actually feel for baby to move, which is a bummer because we’re busy. Right. But personally, I did it after dinner, so my husband would have to clean up dinner.

[00:22:51] I was like, oh no. I need to sit down and do my kick count, honey. there were so many benefits to a kick count at my house.

[00:22:58] Okay. The next complication, well just question is why do we not start until 27 weeks? Because then I get people who are like, well, I’m 12 weeks and I’ve already felt my baby move, and it seems like it’s less today.

[00:23:08] And I’m like, that’s so complicated. But what do you guys say to that?

[00:23:12] Kimberly Isburg: Yeah, so the reason that doctors recommend, the beginning of the third trimester, which is around the 28 week mark, or 26 weeks if you’re high risk or expecting multiples. But the reason for that is because the beginning of the third trimester is when babies start to get into a recognizable pattern of movement.

[00:23:29] So it’ll be a little, you’ll still feel movements before that, of course. But they aren’t gonna be as, patterned. And so again, at that 28 week, 26 weeks, you’re gonna begin to see like those active times of day, the things that you do that are, sparking your baby to move. And it just makes it easier to kind of monitor that pattern and those normal movements.

[00:23:51] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yes. just a reminder that your placenta is so much bigger than your baby early on. And so it can really blunt a lot of those movements and depending on where baby is in the womb against the placenta or where they’re kicking. ’cause if they’re kicking the front, you know, you have muscles and stuff that are feeling that, but it whereas if they’re kicking to the side, you know, it might just be buggin’ your liver, I don’t know. And so you just might not feel it as much because baby’s so small compared to the rest of your body until you reach that third trimester. So I think that’s important to think about. And also as a healthcare provider, there really isn’t all that much we could do prior to 27 weeks, if you came in and said baby’s moving less. That’s something to think about. That’s part of why we do it. We don’t want you to be stressing out at something that movements change and patterns change because we aren’t looking to increase your stress, even though people seem to think that we are online with kick counts. That’s why we don’t start ’em until 27 weeks.

[00:24:42] If you think you’re high risk, though, definitely talk with your provider. A lot of moms are saying they start at 25 weeks and again, those first week or two where you’re mostly just learning the pattern, of what your baby’s gonna do.

[00:24:51] Kimberly Isburg: Yeah, that’s great advice.

[00:24:52] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Okay. Now our kick counts are slower or way faster.

[00:24:56] A lot of people, are like, it’s any change in fetal movement. So if baby’s kicking a whole lot more, you wanna go in. Or if baby’s kicking a whole lot less, you wanna go in. True?

[00:25:06] Kimberly Isburg: True, true. Any change in, in what’s normal for your baby is a reason to go in and get checked.

[00:25:12] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yeah, out of their normal pattern,

[00:25:13] Kimberly Isburg: Right.

[00:25:14] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: right? So just because it only took eight minutes where it usually takes 10, that’s not a change in your pattern.

[00:25:19] Right?

[00:25:20] so you go into the hospital and the thing I hear all the time is my baby kicked the monitor as soon as we got in.

[00:25:26] Kimberly Isburg: Yeah. And I say, great, like you went in, you listened to your instincts, you listened to what your baby was telling you, you got in there and everything is fine. that’s best case scenario. And you know. Doctors and nurses are there to help you and to support you and to check, um, to make sure that you and your baby are doing okay.

[00:25:44] And so they really would rather do that than find that you, you delayed and didn’t come in until um, something really was wrong. So.

[00:25:53] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yeah, and with kick counts, I wanna encourage you guys that it’s not an absence of fetal movement. I mean, I, as a nurse, I’ve had so many patients come in and say, oh, I haven’t felt my baby all day. Total fear and dread into every labor nurse’s heart. We want that monitor on immediately so that we can reassure both you and ourselves at that point in time. But decreased kick counts mean baby is still moving. You’re still feeling baby move, which means they could kick the monitor. ’cause babies love to kick our monitors. We love it. But why is it decreased? Again, that could show, an issue with the health of your pregnancy, an issue with the amniotic fluid, things like that where baby’s movements are decreased, but you’re still gonna feel the baby kick the monitor or things like that.

[00:26:34] Kimberly Isburg: Yeah, I mean, research shows that a change in movement is really one of the earliest signs that there may be an issue with the pregnancy. So it’s one of those early warning signs. and also, you know, babies are like us. Their movement is a sign of their wellbeing. So think about what happens if you have the flu or if you have a cold, you don’t have as much energy.

[00:26:53] You don’t wanna be running around your house doing chores. You want to lay down in your bed or lay down on the couch. Your movement changes. And so your baby is much the same if they’re not. Getting what they need. If they’re experiencing something that’s causing them to not feel like themselves, their movement is gonna change.

[00:27:10] And so that’s a really important sign that you wanna pay attention to and go in as soon as you can. Call your provider as soon as you can so that they can check and make sure that you know there isn’t something wrong.

[00:27:22] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yes. Um, I just don’t want people, everyone, you know, when you take your kid into the pediatrician, this is a hundred percent gonna happen.

[00:27:28] They’re like miserable at home, not like getting off the couch, dying tears coming outta their eyes. You take ’em to the pediatrician, suddenly they see the fish tank and they’re like a hundred percent better. So. That’s gonna happen for the rest of your life. But don’t think that just because you went in and the baby kicked a little, doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t still be monitoring you and baby.

[00:27:48] Kimberly Isburg: Yeah. Yeah. And if, again, if you go in one day and everything is fine and two days later you’re feeling things are feeling off again, your baby’s not moving like normal again. Go in and get checked. Call your provider every time that you feel like something is different than usual. It’s important to go in and get checked.

[00:28:06] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Okay. The last thing is “I went into my provider, they listened on the Doppler, baby’s heart rate was fine, and they wanna send me home, like if they go into just their doctor’s office. What do you guys recommend? If that’s the case,

[00:28:20] Kimberly Isburg: I mean, trust your instincts. really if you really feel like you don’t feel reassured, you don’t feel like your baby is moving like normal, trust your instincts and continue to ask.

[00:28:32] Ask for additional testing. Ask to be monitored longer. Ask for a non-stressed or test or a biophysical profile. Ask to check your fluid levels. The other thing is you can show your data from Count the Kicks, that’s the other thing. Pull up your app, show them the chart and say like, look, it normally takes 15 minutes for my baby to move 10 times, and today it’s been an hour.

[00:28:56] And I didn’t get there yet. Like show them the data, so that you can help advocate for yourself and for your baby. You can ask to see a different nurse, the head nurse, you can ask to talk to the doctor. There are lots of things you can do, to help advocate. And again, just the key is trust your instincts.

[00:29:12] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Two thoughts on that. The first one is we frequently get people who come into labor and delivery and who are like, I haven’t felt my baby move all day. And I’m like, okay, let’s get the baby on the monitor. That’s obviously our first thing. And then we start going through like, when did you last eat? And they’re like, oh, like six o’clock last night.

[00:29:27] And it’s like 1:00 PM And I’m like, why did you not eat this morning? And so that kind of thing is a little bit frustrating for us because you know that you should be eating and those kind of things or you know, Just as a, as a labor nurse, it’s kind of hard to know exactly what they mean when they’re like, baby’s moving less today.

[00:29:43] Or you know, have you been busy? is it Christmas? Like a lot of times at Christmas people will come in and they’re just like, well, I’m just not feeling baby move, but they’re doing like all these family things and stuff like that. And so it’s kind of hard as a labor nurse to know exactly what they mean.

[00:29:55] But if somebody comes in saying, my kick count usually takes 10 minutes, and now I’m to 40 minutes,, and I still haven’t gotten to 10 kicks. I know that A, you’re monitoring it and B, we have data behind it that we really need to upgrade this, care to something a little bit more. As a labor nurse, that’s just what you’re thinking.

[00:30:11] We’ve got data, right? So that’s why I love you guys’ app to help people out. And then the second thing is a lot of people don’t know. ‘Cause you go into your doctor’s office, they just doppler, right? But in the hospital, we’re required to do an NST on every single patient that comes in that’s past their third trimester, which is when you would start doing kick counts.

[00:30:28] And Even if the NST is okay, there are more things you can order, like you talked about. We can do A BPP, which is an ultrasound that measures how baby’s moving in the womb, how they’re, they breathe amniotic fluid when they’re in the womb, like how, like tight their muscles are and all these different things.

[00:30:41] It’s just like a, a mini test to see how baby’s doing. And so we can order that further testing. It’s not just either just a Doppler in the doctor’s office or just an NST. We can upgrade it. but sometimes I think you do have to ask. It just depends. ’cause sometimes the unit is so busy, we’re just like, yeah, baby’s fine.

[00:30:56] You’re good to go. Whereas if you said, I’m really concerned, then I think we’re gonna really take that seriously.

[00:31:02] Kimberly Isburg: Yeah, absolutely. And I would say, if you’re looking for advice for, you know, feeling empowered or, wanting to make sure that you are able to speak up if you need to, read the baby save stories on our website.

[00:31:15] Like almost every single mom in every single story says something about trusting your instincts, advocating for yourself and for your baby, the importance of continuing to speak up until you feel like your concerns have been addressed and heard.

[00:31:30] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yeah. I would totally agree. And as a labor nurse, I want to know that if your concerns aren’t addressed and you still feel anxious about it, I want to know and then we’ll go from there.

[00:31:40] Right. It might be further testing, it might be talking a little bit more. Again, I see a lot of people who are like, well, I went in at, you know, 23 weeks with decreased fetal movement. They pretty much are just gonna doppler you maybe an NST if they can get the baby on the monitor. But that’s really all we can do.

[00:31:55] Which is why you know, it’s so important to start this in your third trimester. ‘Cause there really is more testing we can do and more we can do. It might just be like serial blood pressures. Let’s check this mom blood pressure and see how things are going. Let’s check her glucose. You know, there are little things that we can do to just kind of see how your pregnancy health is going.

[00:32:10] Do you guys recommend that you go straight into labor and delivery, or do you recommend going to your provider? What do you guys recommend?

[00:32:16] Kimberly Isburg: Definitely call your provider, and check with them. But again, if it’s after hours, if you’re not hearing back right away, like it’s always okay to go straight to labor and delivery and to get checked.

[00:32:27] You can call and let your doctor know that you’re on your way. But, really again, just trust your instincts and if you’re concerned, get yourself checked as soon as you can.

[00:32:35] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yes. And I will tell you from a labor and delivery nurse, we have people who come in for this all the time.

[00:32:39] I think people think that you only come into labor and delivery when you’re gonna have the baby, and that’s not the case at all. You come in for bladder infections, you come in for baby not moving, you come in for, extreme ligament pain that you think is labor, but really ends up being ligament pain.

[00:32:50] We have a nurse who’s dedicated to just seeing patients who come in like a mini emergency room for pregnant people.

[00:32:56] Kimberly Isburg: Right. Yeah. So yeah, you can go straight to labor and delivery and they know what to do and to check when you get there.

[00:33:04] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yes. And they’re open 24 7, 365 days a year. You don’t have to be like, is labor and delivery open?

[00:33:09] I can tell you that it is. Of course you wanna make sure that the hospital you’re going to has labor and delivery, and I think that’s important for every patient to know because there are labor and delivery units closing. So you could show up to a hospital that really isn’t prepared. So talk with your provider about where you’re gonna be delivering so that you know that that’s probably the hospital that you should head to if you’re having an issue.

[00:33:28] Kimberly Isburg: And also think about for those moms that live in rural areas or farther away from their birthing center, I think that’s another consideration. If you know that you’re an hour away from the nearest labor and delivery unit, that’s another thing to think about in just making sure that. Maybe you call your provider, but you go ahead and get in the car and start heading that direction so that you can get evaluated as soon as possible.

[00:33:49] ’cause hours and minutes really do matter when there is an issue in pregnancy, and so the sooner you can get checked, the sooner you’re gonna have a chance to address anything that’s going on.

[00:33:59] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yes. And I absolutely hate the fact that we have so many post or pregnancy deserts out there. So many people are driving long distances to their labor and delivery.

[00:34:08] And I’m not talking about the people who pass like five hospitals on the way ’cause they’re picky. Right. And they want a specific one. I’m talking about people who that is their option. Yep. So we gotta work on that too. We have so much to work on. But kick counts is something that you can do for you and your baby’s health every single day, and I think it’s really gonna reassure you if you think you’re gonna be anxious or you think your baby isn’t gonna do it.

[00:34:28] My tip is to give it a try. Commit to try for a week, see how you’re feeling after the week, because that week is really just learning about your baby’s pattern. And then see where you’re at after the week.

[00:34:39] Kimberly Isburg: I love that advice.

[00:34:40] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yeah. Because I’m an anxious person. I get it. I would sit there and be like, it’s been 12 minutes and we’re only to eight counts.

[00:34:46] And yesterday we were at 10 minutes. I get that. But again, you’re looking for a pattern.

[00:34:50] Kimberly Isburg: Yes. And the more, again, the more data you have, the easier it’s gonna be to see that pattern. So

[00:34:55] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: yes. Alright. Thank you so much for coming on Kimberly. Do you have anything else to tell the pregnant mamas out there?

[00:35:00] Kimberly Isburg: I just wanted to share our app now has a contraction timer as well. So, another tool and feature that’s on the Count the Kicks app that you can use, once you get close to, the end of your pregnancy and it’s time for labor to start. You can use that to time your contractions and help inform you on when it’s time to head to the hospital or call your midwife or doctor.

[00:35:20] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yeah, it’s a great app that you’re gonna be able to find lots of use for. it’s not something that is just one thing. You can get lots of information from it. So the other thing I gotta say is. Download the app, get in your phone, download the app, especially if you’re like 25 weeks and it’s already on your phone, you’re ready and set up to do your kick counts once the big day comes in your 27 weeks.

[00:35:38] Kimberly Isburg: Yep. And you can set reminders right in the app. So, it’ll send you a notification every day when it’s time to count. So, really easy to use.

[00:35:46] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Yes, please do your kick counts, guys. It’s a huge soapbox for me because the less still births the better in my mind. And I have found still births and I’ve definitely taken care of still births moms and we wanna decrease them as much as possible.

[00:35:59] And this is something we can do has been proven to decrease still births. Yes. Alright. Download the app. Do your kick counts. Let’s go team.

[00:36:07] Kimberly Isburg: Thanks Hilary. I totally agree.

[00:36:09] Hilary Erickson | The Pregnancy Nurse®: Thanks for joining us on the Pulling Curls podcast today. If you like today’s episode, please consider reviewing, sharing, subscribing. It really helps our podcast grow. Thank you.

Keywords:

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